Comments on: post-emergent where do we go from here? Chaos or community, inclusion and embrace http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/ musings of a jamaican born, husband, father, beyond modern, reforming, emerging, jesus following, urban church planter Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:47:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: emerging mosaic » Blog Archive » post-emergent where do we go from here? Chaos or community, inclusion and embrace http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/comment-page-1/#comment-16362 emerging mosaic » Blog Archive » post-emergent where do we go from here? Chaos or community, inclusion and embrace Sat, 15 Dec 2007 08:51:45 +0000 http://www.andredaley.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/#comment-16362 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] This entry was posted on Saturday, March 4th, 2006 at 2:54 pm and is filed under emerging church, spiritual practice, diversity. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] This entry was posted on Saturday, March 4th, 2006 at 2:54 pm and is filed under emerging church, spiritual practice, diversity. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. [...]

]]> By: Jamie Arpin-Ricci http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/comment-page-1/#comment-420 Jamie Arpin-Ricci Sun, 05 Mar 2006 16:04:19 +0000 http://www.andredaley.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/#comment-420 Andre, Now you're talking!  Well said.  I have struggled with this one (in a good way) for some time now.  Interestingly, my shift towards the emerging conversation can be largely tied to the impact that indigenous theology has had on my faith, especially First Nations (Native American).  Further, reading the blog of Anthony Smith was the next step in convincing me to engage. One my difficulties is this: How can I pursue this inclusive and embracing faith & practice without being seen as trying to "steal" it? On one hand we need to be more inclusive, but on the other we are accused of expropriation. I would value your insights here. Peace, Jamie  Andre,
Now you’re talking!  Well said.  I have struggled with this one (in a good way) for some time now.  Interestingly, my shift towards the emerging conversation can be largely tied to the impact that indigenous theology has had on my faith, especially First Nations (Native American).  Further, reading the blog of Anthony Smith was the next step in convincing me to engage.
One my difficulties is this: How can I pursue this inclusive and embracing faith & practice without being seen as trying to "steal" it? On one hand we need to be more inclusive, but on the other we are accused of expropriation.
I would value your insights here.
Peace,
Jamie 

]]> By: cheryl http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/comment-page-1/#comment-418 cheryl Sun, 05 Mar 2006 06:41:36 +0000 http://www.andredaley.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/#comment-418 this is excellent, thought provoking stuff, andre. i wonder whether it's time to bypass 'the movers', and for people of colour, and others in the margins,  to start the new conversation about what the shape of christian community could be like, so the conversation begins from this point, rather than having to be stretched to include it. that's not to exclude other voices, but to privilege the voices of the non-dominant paradigm. that's not out of political correctness, but an understanding that God has repeatedly spoken through the voices of those on the margins. (sallie mcfague, in her excellent book "Life Abundant" asks the question whether white, middle class north americans are actually able to do theology - she comes out saying yes -and so would i - but only with qualifications. it's an interesting and challenging thought)  what's a good reading list, andre?  this is excellent, thought provoking stuff, andre.
i wonder whether it’s time to bypass ‘the movers’, and for people of colour, and others in the margins,  to start the new conversation about what the shape of christian community could be like, so the conversation begins from this point, rather than having to be stretched to include it. that’s not to exclude other voices, but to privilege the voices of the non-dominant paradigm. that’s not out of political correctness, but an understanding that God has repeatedly spoken through the voices of those on the margins.

(sallie mcfague, in her excellent book "Life Abundant" asks the question whether white, middle class north americans are actually able to do theology - she comes out saying yes -and so would i - but only with qualifications. it’s an interesting and challenging thought) 
what’s a good reading list, andre? 

]]> By: Rich http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/comment-page-1/#comment-416 Rich Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:54:52 +0000 http://www.andredaley.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/#comment-416 I like your list of expressions.   I wholeheartedly agree with the first. The pursuit of a GO only makes it very easy to hole up with others like us. Your second expression gets to the heart of what bugs the most about the whole emergent thing. There is plenty of talk about the social margins but little understanding of what the social margins are. All the pictures and video and what not of those on the leading edge of emergent are still white and middle class. Diseffected middle class white folks who have been abused by the church can certainly be on the social margins, but if the definition ends there, they commit the same sins as the church who abused them. Your last really hits home. I am not a part of a minority, but know that not all voices are heard. As a white male, married to a black female, living in the south and technically on the poverty line (I say technically because God has blessed us well beyond what we have) we are a different sort of voice and definately outside the dominant culture. Nearly every time I enter the conversation from that perspective, I get smacked down. I think my fatal mistake is believing the hype that it is a conversation where all are welcome. That is not true. All are not welcome. There are groups on both sides of that line that are not welcome in the conversation. Conversation implies no agenda, and we know that isn't the case. It's a movement and there are 'movers'. I could name the names, but we know them all. My one suggestion of a way forward is for those 'movers' to start being held accountable. They espouse lofty ideals but there is little follow through. They do lots of talking about minorities, women, and folks in the margins, yet their efforts to include fall flat. They speak from their places at large private universities, large churches, and well read blogs and are rarely called to task by those they would 'lead'. I'll stop here. I didn't mean to post such a lengthy comment. Sorry. Thanks for your post. Very thought provoking.    I like your list of expressions.
 
I wholeheartedly agree with the first. The pursuit of a GO only makes it very easy to hole up with others like us.
Your second expression gets to the heart of what bugs the most about the whole emergent thing. There is plenty of talk about the social margins but little understanding of what the social margins are. All the pictures and video and what not of those on the leading edge of emergent are still white and middle class. Diseffected middle class white folks who have been abused by the church can certainly be on the social margins, but if the definition ends there, they commit the same sins as the church who abused them.
Your last really hits home. I am not a part of a minority, but know that not all voices are heard. As a white male, married to a black female, living in the south and technically on the poverty line (I say technically because God has blessed us well beyond what we have) we are a different sort of voice and definately outside the dominant culture. Nearly every time I enter the conversation from that perspective, I get smacked down.
I think my fatal mistake is believing the hype that it is a conversation where all are welcome. That is not true. All are not welcome. There are groups on both sides of that line that are not welcome in the conversation. Conversation implies no agenda, and we know that isn’t the case.

It’s a movement and there are ‘movers’. I could name the names, but we know them all. My one suggestion of a way forward is for those ‘movers’ to start being held accountable. They espouse lofty ideals but there is little follow through. They do lots of talking about minorities, women, and folks in the margins, yet their efforts to include fall flat. They speak from their places at large private universities, large churches, and well read blogs and are rarely called to task by those they would ‘lead’.

I’ll stop here. I didn’t mean to post such a lengthy comment. Sorry. Thanks for your post. Very thought provoking.   

]]> By: Evangelical Resources http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/comment-page-1/#comment-490 Evangelical Resources Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 http://www.andredaley.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/#comment-490 <!--%kramer-pre%--> post emergent pt III - sharing the wealth<!--%kramer-post%--> post emergent pt III - sharing the wealth

]]> By: Subversive Influence » Blog Archive » The Post-Conference Post http://www.emergingmosaic.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/comment-page-1/#comment-491 Subversive Influence » Blog Archive » The Post-Conference Post Wed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 +0000 http://www.andredaley.com/2006/03/04/post-emergent-where-do-we-go-from-here-chaos-or-community-inclusion-and-embrace/#comment-491 <!--%kramer-pre%--> I mentioned the other day about Andre Daley being post-emergent, and it turns out he’s caused quite a little stir in ec-blogdom. He continues theconversation a little further over a few posts. There’s some interesting further thought there, but the overall tone seems to be a kind of “Hold on a minute, we’re not quite done with the emerging church just yet.<!--%kramer-post%--> I mentioned the other day about Andre Daley being post-emergent, and it turns out he’s caused quite a little stir in ec-blogdom. He continues theconversation a little further over a few posts. There’s some interesting further thought there, but the overall tone seems to be a kind of “Hold on a minute, we’re not quite done with the emerging church just yet.

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