Mar 12 2009

faith in a post religious world

This entry is part 1 of 4 in the series post-religious faith

So in response to the recent USA today article about people turning away from religion I have had several conversations mostly in cyberspace with Christians who give me way to understand why our culture is moving into being post-religious.

First, there is the knee jerk reaction and immediate assumption by some of us Christians that if people are not religious they are anti-Christian. (Oh and by the way if you are anti-Christian you are also anti-American). In fact the article suggested that all religions and religious tribes are losing ground.  Instead of looking at the context and seeing that though these folks are not interested in religious institutions (and remembering that Jesus was not either)  they are spiritual ; there is the immediate defensive posture that they are hostile to religion and so hostile to us and so hostile to God. There is no consideration of the idea behind Dan Kimball’s book that they might like Jesus but not the church (i.e institutional religion) .

Secondly there is what seems to me to be a weak confidence in God’s word and Jesus message that feeds the fixation on personal salvation as all that matters. I need to get heaven and the rest be damned. Religion is the ticket to heaven. Not faith mind you religion. So if we are losing our religion then we are shaking the very foundations of the faith. Never mind that Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the the church. I believe that God in control and will ways be in control and though the church or religion may be shaken, the faith of Abraham, Jesus and Paul will not no matter what craziness we mixed up messed up human beings get into.

So I don’t blame the average pew sitter in this. it is some of our religious leaders that truly worry and scare. Watch the video that was sent to me to rebut my thoughts about living faithfully in a post-religious world.


john mcarthur’s religious views on the emergent church

First problem is this is doesn’t square with scripture. We can’t just cherry pick scripture to suit our views. Jesus did say he came for those who are poor Luke 4:18,19Luke 4:18,19
English: Contemporary English Version (1999) - CEV

18 .
. Jesus did say he came so we could have a abundant life.  John 10:10John 10:10
English: Contemporary English Version (1999) - CEV

10 A thief comes only to rob, kill, and destroy. I came so that everyone would have life, and have it in its fullest.
. So can we just dismiss those parts of scripture in favor of one that suit our point of view. If we do we  are setting up a false choice that doesn’t show the whole picture. It is not either Jesus came to bring salvation or Jesus came to bring us life and good news to the poor. It is Jesus came to bring salvation and life; both, and also good news to the poor.  Jesus came to initiate the reordering all of creation (the kingdom or reign of God) and not just grant personal salvation so the blessed few can get to heaven. I think scripture bears that out.

Then we must deal with the fact that ripping other followers of Jesus and setting ourselves up as an individual arbiter of genuine faith is something that diminishes the witness of the church. Saying eeither you are with me or your are wrong and bad is so not the way Jesus dealt with people, with the exception of the religious leaders. Some of us religious leaders are doing the same thing that the religious leaders of Jesus day did. The same things that Jesus criticized them for. They are setting themselves up as the be all and end of the Christian faith. There is no humility, no recognizing that there is only one authority when it comes to this Christian faith and that is Jesus.
We can’t pick and chose only the parts of Jesus teaching we like to prove our points. We need to always look at the patterns of faith and life that Jesus gave us instead of just making up dogma to fit our social and political sensibilities, whatever they may be. This has the effect of people seeing them as bigoted and hypocrites as David Kinneman points out in the book Unchristian (which every follower of Jesus who want to share the Christian faith in post-religious world should read).

I don’t question speaker’s faith or belief. But this is a good example of how religion (which sets up the eeither or) can turn people away from the Christian faith which is so much more powerful, holistic and transforming that just eeither or propositions.

But there is blame to go around on all sides there are some folks with new perspectives on the faith that seem intent on disconnecting from the historical biblical Christian faith.  It gives dogmatic people fodder for their views and lets them paint anyone not agreeing their dogmatic views with the same brush and leads to responses like the one below to my above thoughts.

Either or propositions? What? Are we all Hindus now too? Truth is ALWAYS an “either or proposition.” You yourself cannot follow your own line when you refer to truth as being Scripture. (No relativist ever can live his own propositions.) I do agree that salvation is “holistic” (I really hate all these goopy trendy words) - spirit, soul, body. But the great, overwhelming emphasis in Scripture was on the spiritual, the eternal, the Kingdom that flesh and blood cannot inherit.

Years ago church consultant Bill Easum suggested to a group of church leaders that one of the biggest challenges for Jesus followers moving into the future was going to be the question how can I follow Jesus without being a bigot. I think he was asking us to consider how can we stand for Jesus without blowing off the very people Jesus calls us to reach.

So I wonder what will faith look like in post-religious world? Will there be a church for the post-religious or will we all be heading to hell in an hand basket?

I wonder if defenders of the truth will descend on this blog to prove their point and share their view, we will see.

Popularity: 11% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , , , , , , , ,

One response so far

Oct 01 2008

defining emergence

Published by Andre Daley under emerging church

browsing the ooze blog I cam e across a link to this site which has compiled an extensive list of online definitions of the emerging church

i wonder as i wander: what is the emerging/missional/monastic/ multicultural/postmodern church anyway?.

Popularity: 26% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , ,

3 responses so far

May 29 2008

the power of what if

Published by Andre Daley under diversity

One of the most powerful lessons learned in my recent diversity training with Steve Robbins is the power of asking the question, what if? I have applied that learning to the recent conversations about race and the emergent ( not necessarily emerging ) church. So here are some what ifs that I am pondering.

What if the mental model of those anglos emergents  unwilling to address race issue doesn’t allow them to see how limited their world view is?

What if they are just interpreting race though a limited cultural lens?

What if they are just falling in intentional intolerance because they can’t see the other options and don’t have all the information?

What if they haven’t critically examined their point of view?

What if we are all trying too hard to be nice?

What if we all buy into sub-conscious cultural messages?

What if some of us are just closed minded?

What if some of us are open minded when we don’t feel attacked?

What if there are many other what if around this conversation that I can’t even come up with?

Popularity: 17% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , ,

One response so far

Oct 30 2007

emerging church forum postscript

Well I don’t know how I represented the emerging/post-emergent/missional world view at the Baker forum two weeks ago. It was fun to hear the thoughts of the other participants all of whom I know; including my friend Steve Argue, who argued articulately for the need of the church to look again at how we practice what we preach. A colleague John Frye, who spoke with some pastoral compassion about the important contribution of the emerging church to the church. And Michael Wittmer who was brilliant in raising an appropriate cautionary question about what we do believe. I spoke about my experience with emergent and what is means to be embracing missional values pastoring an urban emerging church. I talked about the false dichotomy between belonging and believing. orthodoxy and orthopraxis, and the lack of diversity in the conversation. It was cool to have a recently connected couple from Mosaic Life there. The moderator Sarah Cunningham did a great job guiding the conversation.

ermegingchurchforum2.JPG ermergingchurchforum3.JPGermergingchurchforum.JPG

One the one hand the folks at Baker thought it went well. (thanks for the pics guys). On the other hand someone who attended, warned a student working with me that they should careful working with me with me because I do yoga. I don’t know if much changed as a result I only received one letter about what I said I supposed there could have been more. The strangest thing was the one person who came up to afterward to tell me that he had friends who were Muslim and Indian who were good people but they were lost. I’m not sure why he thought that was important to tell me but so be it.

Popularity: 66% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , , ,

2 responses so far

Sep 20 2007

why race still matters and trumps everything in emerging/missional conversation

Published by Andre Daley under conversations

This entry is part 3 of 8 in the series why race matters

mn_jena_rally_11.jpgJena sixIf you haven’t heard about the Jena six don’t be surprised. Until today when thousands marched to protest the treatment of six back youth by the justice system in the south there was scant  coverage of the six black students plight and not much talk if any of it in the Christian community.

There are many emergent conversations going on, was shared in the latest Emergent newsletter.

 

The first is on September 20: “Emerging Critiques of Evangelicalism.” ; and the second is on September 27: “Missional: Has It been Shrinkwrapped, Too?” Read about them both here. The other event is hosted by Zondervan, around the book Listening to the Beliefs of the Emerging Church. It’s called Emergence 2007, and it’s taking place in Austin, TX on October 19-20. Check it out.

And now to the business at hand: Recently, we’ve released the second book in the emersion books line that we produce with Baker Books. It’s called Justice in the Burbs, and it’s written by the husband-and-wife team of Will and Lisa Sampson. 

Many in the emerging, traditional and missional churches debate theology, but missing from the conversation is a key component of God’s reign and Jesus mission, justice. The injustice of racism in this country is readily and easily ignored by most of those who seek to initiate new ways of practicing the Christian faith. Some like me who saw great potential this effort to re-imagine faith run the risk of being co-opted into silence on the issue so that we can be apart of the “bigger” conversation. I say no more. We cannot talk about re-imagining faith without talking about justice for the oppressed, this is part of what Jesus stated as his mission in Luke 4. We cannot talk about justice for all (in the south, north, city and burbs) without dealing with the injustice racism as it is expressed in this country. We cannot talk about a generous orthodoxy that is not partnered with a just and generous orthopraxis.

Dr. King (quoting the prophet Amos) called for Justice to roll down like a river (24 But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream! Amos 5:24Amos 5:24
English: Contemporary English Version (1999) - CEV

24 But let justice and fairness flow like a river that never runs dry.

WP-Bible plugin
(NIV) )

The NLT reading of this passage suggests that this justice is what leads to right living.

I colleague sent me this prayer request from his son.

My son Caleb, age 14, has asked that we  pray for this protest tomorrow that it be peaceful and that we pray that our  churches and schools, will continue to do their part to end racism in America.  Tomorrow his entire school in SF will join in the protest by having  conversations and wearing black. You might have heard conflicting reports of  what actually happened in Jena, here’s what I have been able to piece together  from several sources:

Here is what I think is at stake for the church in all its expressions

Again the thing that captured my attention is  that our youth, young men and women of all ethnicities are upset from High  School to Colleges all over the country, yet this news didn’t even make the TV  tonight! Also, upon reading the blogs I am impressed with the conviction and  perspective of today’s youth, they don’t want to accept this disease in  America anymore and many, many are very articulate about their angst. It was  the youth all over the nation through blogs and text messaging and other uses  of technology where the initial concept of a protest began and organization  started to take shape, albeit others are now stepping in to do the ‘real’  organizing.

If the church remains silent in the face of the continued evidence of the destructive results of racism for all people in and out of the church we are irrelevant to these young people and others who will look elsewhere for the justice that NT Wright say we innately know should be a part of how we live and love.

There is more to say on this but I will save that for later. SO the question I have on my poll for the last year remains. CAN the church emerge into a re-imagined faith without dealing with racism

Popularity: 35% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , ,

2 responses so far

May 28 2007

things I learned while teaching a class on the missional church

As the some says “Its been a long while” since I’ve been blogging anyway. Besides leading my young church plant I had the privilege to teach a class on the missional church at a local seminary Missional Church GRTS MIN567. Still humbling asking why me? Teaching students at a seminary in intimidating enough but teaching about the missional church which I’m still developing and growing in my understanding was truly a great responsibility.

As I reflect on the experience there are some things I discovered along the way that I want to share here.

  1. Many people think of the emerging church and the missional church as the same thing.
  2. Mission is still seen as a program of the church rather than the function of the church
  3. Mission is often discussed separate from the mission dei as if the mission is something the church develops rather than being some thing that God is doing that we join in.
  4. There is a tendency to try to separate being missional from being incarnational and contextual
  5. It is major paradigm shift for many of us raised in the church to begin to think missionally about the church, the scriptures and our lives

Well that’s a start on my observations I’ll probably have more in the future

BTW required reading for the class was

  • The Mission of God:Unlocking the Bible’s Grand Narrative - Christopher J. H. Wright
  • The Shaping of things to Come - Frost and Hirsch
  • The Missional Church: A vision for the Sending of the Church in NA - Darrel Guder
  • Shaped by God’s Heart: The Passion ans Practices of Missional Churches - Milfred Minatrea


Technorati : , , , , ,

Popularity: 27% [?]

Technorati Tags: ,

No responses yet

Nov 26 2006

toward a missional future

emergent, new monastic, emerging, organic, ancient future, missional church. I haven’t been completely comfortable with any of these current labels for evolving ways of being the church. As I have been re-imagining what it means to be a follower of Jesus in my current cultural context  (urban,racially and socio-economically diverse) I’ve moved beyond emergent but had not named what that beyond was.

I was recently been asked to teach a class at a local seminary on the missional church. As I’ve been preparing for that I find myself growing increasingly more comfortable with identifying what I’m doing as missional. To be sure the missional label is not perfect and I can’t say I agree with every expression of missional but here are some things that appeal to my post emergent sensibility.

My developing view of the missional church is

  • Cross cultural in its efforts
  • intentional indigenous - culturally engaged but not culturally absorbed
  • connecting with God who is already at work in our world
  • incarnational proclamation of the gospel
  • realigning or re-imagining all aspects of church life around God’s purposes
  • culturally engaged but scripturally orthodox
  • transforming community
  • church planting reproduction
  • creative and culturally relevant but connected to the historically church

Some language derived from  Friends of missional

So as I move toward the missional future I’ve taken the huge leap of posting a friend of missional button in my side bar. A  first of any kind of identifying button for emerging mosaic.

Share your ideas or thoughts on the missional church

Popularity: 47% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , , , , , ,

7 responses so far

Nov 20 2006

emerging church dead end?

It may be self serving but I am encouraged when I see others speaking out for a post emergent future for the emerging church. Here is a snippet of a review from a talk given by Jason Clark titled The Emerging Church: Another Dead-End or the Hope of the Church?

First, it must become a deeper church by valuing old, new and even Christian faith.

Second, following the example and work of such theologians as Stan Grenz, Jon Franke, Scott McKnight, and Ray Anderson, it must become a theological church by developing a theology robust enough not to be either threatened or co-opted by postmodernism.

Third, it must become a Biblically-informed church by reading and re-reading the Bible as the church- and culture- critiquing set of authoritative texts that it is.

Fourth, following the ancient church on the road to depth, it must become a creedal church, checking the individualistic impulse towards fashioning the church in the image of ourselves.

Fifth, it must become a confessional church, not to celebrate sectarianism, but to show the richness and vitality of a deeper church. “Maybe then,” says Jason, the emerging church’s legacy will be that it was “the response of the church catholic to our emerging culture … known for it’s vibrant ecumenical depth, with a life giving theology, rooted in a new Biblicism, growing counter to our individualized culture, as it affirms the creeds, with a plurality of local confessions from communities growing in faith, with new Christians handing their lives over to the way of Christ.” We can only hope the emerging church will have such an impact.

I couldn’t agree more with Jason’s assessment of an emerging future for the church. His observations address the tendency of many in the emergent conversation to act as it they are inventing the church all over again. Furthermore that re-invention tends toward the image of those who are doing the re-inventing that is to say white, liberal, male and academic. While there is nothing inherently wrong with any of that it has not created space for the richness of the church which comes from its history and the diversity of its members.

That has unfortunately caused some to step out of or beyond “the conversation” having become frustrated with perceived the intransigence of the emergent hierarchy, (yes there is a hierarchy) around these issues. Thanks to Jason for being a bold and prophetic. Maybe his voice will be heard and stimulate where others have not

Popularity: 32% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , , , , , ,

3 responses so far

Nov 19 2006

Emergent and large

Published by Andre Daley under emerging church

I came across this recent in the The Christian Century. The description of Jacob’s web does not seem to fit the usual prescription of an emergent church. Which is supposed to be small and democratically led. (flat leadership model)

This neighborhood is also home to a thriving church called Jacobs Well, which attracts about 1,000 people each week to its various services. The church is led by Tim Keel, who, along with author Brian McLaren, is a founder of the Emergent movement. I went to JW hoping that it could help me understand a phenomenon that remains elusive—the Emergent church.

The innovative JW is housed, ironically, in a classic church building that Presbyterians erected in 1930. The building is the envy of the numerous congregations in the neighborhood, including two that have exchanged their denominational labels for more jazzy names and logos—one Southern Baptist now River City Church and one Evangelical Covenant now City Church.

So can a church be emergent and large, and led by a charismatic leader?

Popularity: 24% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , ,

4 responses so far

Nov 09 2006

the original emerging church

The Dust Off Their Feet: Lessons from the First Church (Voice)I am preparing for a couple of worship messages based on Act 2:42-44Act 2:42-44
English: Contemporary English Version (1999) - CEV

42 They spent their time learning from the apostles, and they were like family to each other. They also broke bread g broke bread: They ate together and celebrated the Lord's Supper. and prayed together. Life among the Lord's Followers 43 Everyone was amazed by the many miracles and wonders that the apostles worked. 44 All the Lord's followers often met together, and they shared everything they had.

WP-Bible plugin
and while browsing the religion section of a local bookstore I came across a great book find. A couple of dusty feet caught my eye.  They were on the cover of a book called dust off their feet- lessons from the early church by Brian McLaren and Chris Seay. The title doesn’t fully describe this gem. I describe it as a postmodern reading and commentary of the book of acts. The back cover asks the question, “Did you know the first church in acts was the original emerging church?”

I’ve already  got some good insight from this retelling and commentary on Acts and I recommend to all of those seeking to reclaim the passion and purpose  early church and rebirth it into our emerging contexts.

Popularity: 34% [?]

Technorati Tags: , , , , , , , ,

One response so far

Next »